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Kia Sorento BL MK 1 - Rear Axle Corrosion  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2017 04:57 pm
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bogwort47
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IMPORTANT UPDATE 4 11/7/2017

NEW CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGE TO BRAKE PIPES

The following pictures were received by my Forum showing damage to the rigid brake pipes on the Rear Axle consequential on both brackets failing. Whilst we had come across ruptured flexible brake pipes from the axle to the body previously, damage to the rigids is new to us.





Regards, bogwort47, Admin 1, UKSorento.com

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 Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2017 04:43 pm
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bogwort47
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IMPORTANT UPDATE 3 11/7/2017

Addendum to: IMPORTANT UPDATE 1 11/7/2017

DVSA involvement.

Following the cessation of the Service Campaign 30/4/2017, I supplied various information to DVSA on 2 separate occasions. Then, on 4/7/2017 I received this statement: Ongoing communication between KIA UK and KIA Motor’s Corporation has seen the reinstatement of the Service Action. The Service Action is reinstated until 30 April 2019.

Perhaps not unexpectedly, DVSA have been very tight lipped about what has gone on behind the scenes in this instance. Notwithstanding, I feel that DVSA, in what has been a very difficult situation, may well have been quite influential in achieving this outcome.

Regards, bogwort47, Admin 1, UKSorento.com

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 Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2017 04:25 pm
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bogwort47
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IMPORTANT UPDATE 2 11/7/2017

UK MK 1 SORENTO: UPPER TRAILING ARM BRACKET CORROSION

Hi Everyone

Until very recently, the Kia TSB said that if the thickness of the metal of these brackets had reduced to less than 2.5 mm, the brackets should be replaced with new style brackets etc. There was no mention of being 'unsafe' or otherwise.

However, quite recently, Kia Customer Services actually stated in writing that as a Sorento Brackets were above the 2.5 mm thickness they were 'safe'.

As yet, there have been no consequential incidents because of these brackets failing leading to serious injury or death in terms of the VOSA requirements for a Recall specified when this vehicle was put on sale in the UK in 2002.

That said, in terms of the current requirements for Recalls for newer models, a new circumstance has been defined for a Recall which only requires there to be the potential for injury or death plus a new classification known as a Non-Coded action Manufacturers can use to recall vehicles where there is a safety implication, no injury or death occurrences to date and and perhaps a lower level of risk. The market leaders already appear to be adopting the Non-Coded scenario in respect of vehicles which pre-date the change; a specific example which comes to mind is my Wife's 53 Nissan Micra which was recalled to have a steering column mounting bolt checked for security even though none of the lose examples found to date had resulted in injury or death.
If and until DVSA MoT people include the 2.5 mm thickness as a safety dimension for these vehicles in the MoT Test requirements it would be improper for an MoT Tester to apply the criteria.

Notwithstanding, should a Sorento with under thickness brackets undergo a routine service and inspection (not an MoT) by a qualified motor engineer it would not be inappropriate for the engineer to mention this to the owner on an advisory basis and point out that Kia will likely put it right FOC.

Similarly if the brackets were noted to be over 2.5 mm but lacking the extra 10 mm drainage holes then advice to the owner to contact Kia for the 10mm TSB work FOC also would not be inappropriate.

This information has been supplied, in support of the Motor Industries obvious desire in some quarters to raise the benchmark for vehicle safety in the UK, as advice only.

I feel that some might wish to bear this in mind for the future whilst others might prefer to set it aside as it is not mandatory.

I 'll leave it to Forum Management perhaps to add any qualification to this post as necessary.

Anyway, I hope the information is useful background at least.

Regards, bogwort47, Admin 1, UKSorento.com

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 Posted: Tue Jul 11th, 2017 03:21 pm
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IMPORTANT UPDATE 1 11/7/2017

UK MK 1 SORENTO: UPPER TRAILING ARM BRACKET CORROSION

IGNORING THIS COULD COST YOU UP TO £7,500

Hi Everyone

Sorry I haven’t been around lately but things are really starting to move quite quickly.

In case you do not know, in April 2017, Kia appeared to plan to stop all Free Bracket Service Campaign work from 30/4/2017.

In reality, on 4/7/2017 my Home Forum, UKSorento.com, heard from an official source that, contrary to what had been previously reported in April 2017, the Service Campaign had been re-instated until 30/4/2019.

It is unclear at present how well Kia Main Dealers (KMDs) are responding to this change. Certainly, until very recently, some KMDs have been ‘very unhelpful’.

The ‘Latest Advice’, on how to go about getting your brackets seen to, whether never ‘seen to’ or ‘Rusty Again’, has been comprehensively updated on my Home Forum to try to ensure as few problems as possible during what is likely to be a pretty confused time.

So, if you have recently been ‘rebuffed’ by Kia or still need to get your brackets seen to, please check out the ‘Latest Advce’. So far direct contact with a KMD is not recommended.

Sorry, but there is far too much information, including proforma emails etc, to re-produce here so please go to my Home Forum, Register and Login and then read the ‘Latest Advice’, this link will then work and lead you to everything on the subject: http://kiasorento.proboards.com/thread/13158/announcement-upper-bracket-latest-advice.

Another major development could well be posted there soon – so please keep in touch.

Regards, bogwort47, Admin 1, UKSorento.com

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 Posted: Sat Jan 7th, 2017 07:26 pm
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bogwort47
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Hi and thanks for your responses.

Ford have such a large market sector share that they can apparently be disrespectful to their customers.

On the other hand, Kia were and are still trying to establish themselves. In this instance, this happened early in the campaign to establish Kia and it is clearly a design shortfall which in certain wetter etc, markets makes the product unfit for purpose - the view has been expressed that if Kia had taken a Ford approach their attempt to get market share would have failed just as Datsun did some years back.

My view is that the majority of MoT Testers are 1st and foremost professional Motor Engineers and value their role as professionals looking out for society and are not above sharing knowledge to help society at large, because it grows confidence and repeat business.

I guess you have checked out the data on my home forum and seen the numbers of Sorentos failing on this feature before the next MoT????

Not sure which way to go on this now - please is there a professional organisation for Motor Engineers who would be interested in sharing this information?

Thanks

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 Posted: Wed Dec 21st, 2016 09:48 am
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bimmer
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Here is a link to DVSA's Matters of Testing.


https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/about/

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 Posted: Wed Dec 21st, 2016 09:33 am
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castrolrob
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unfortunately as dvsa will have told you the mot is a minimum level,corroded alone if it looks like itll still do a job for a while isn't enuff to fail,we used to get specific information on some makes/models for stuff like this,when the current computer system was installed it all got withdrawn.your best bet to publicise your concerns would probably be matters of testing,its the dvsa magazine that they use to highlight stuff like this.

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 Posted: Tue Dec 20th, 2016 06:05 pm
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bogwort47
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Hi @castrolrob

I've been trying to think how best to get the message out to all MoT Testers so that they know about this and that Kia UK will fix it FOC.

My concerns are 2 fold:

a) Once these brackets start to rot they actually rust away very quickly - much more quickly than would be expected of European steel - thus, an MoT Tester could be mislead into thinking that although rusty at the time, they would last a lot longer, certainly past the notional 3 months for complaints. Unfortunately, the data on my home forum shows that the number of 'early' failures is beyond that which might be expected from human error - DVSA have accepted this too.

b) Should a tester be 'pressurised into passing something' which might otherwise be a scrapper, they can tell whoever just to get it fixed FOC. Watch out though it is essential to go through Kia Customer Services first NOT a Kia Main Dealer to be sure of not being given the 'run around'. Full details are on my home Forum.

The other the Key thing is that the Kia TSB on this says that if any of the edge thicknesses of these brackets is less than 2.5 mm then the brackets must be replaced, rather than have the 10 mm holes added. Worst case if the axle casing is too rusted to weld the new style brackets to then it is a new axle casing (FOC). Whether brackets rusted to 2.5 mm would pass an MoT or not is unknown to me but given the number of Sorentos failing post MoT or being condemned by Kia soon after it would appear that the MoT inspection criteria are too loose in this case.

The first TSB was first issued 18/4/13
There was a Revision of the first TSB 7/11/13
The TSB (P010) shows the content of both the earlier issues: KCE12-31-P010-BL.pdf (629.78 KB)
The TSB (P011) is referred to in P010, November 2013: P010 11-13 revision-5.pdf (567.96 KB)

Read more: http://kiasorento.proboards.com/thread/13080/basic-tech-upper-brckt-corrosion#ixzz4TP2ocjlf

NB it will be necessary to register & sign in to UKSorento.com for the link to work

Disappointingly, I asked DVSA about putting out an 'SI' of some kind to publicise this and I was told that it would be too confusing for MoT Testers - Heh Ho

Thanks for info about the Ford Ka - I'll take a look at it - only goes to show how cheeky a Manufacturer can be when they have an established market share unlike Kia prior to 2010.

Any questions please just ask...

Regards

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 Posted: Tue Dec 20th, 2016 12:44 pm
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castrolrob
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count your lucky stars kia do anything about it,look up pre 2008 ford ka if you want a real horror story about corrosion,dont recall the manufacturer being interested in any way shape or form.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2016 07:20 pm
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bogwort47
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Hi Guys

Sorry, but yes you do need to register, but it is free. We are talking big money - 1 owner was quoted £7.5K to have theirs fixed. I expect that Kia will charge you just to read the TSBs?

Regards

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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2016 12:29 pm
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castrolrob
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gets me on there no problem,just wont let me look at owt without registering,if I do that on every make/model we have problems with I am gonna need a bigger inbox....

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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2016 09:40 am
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bimmer
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The links working fine for me rob.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 19th, 2016 09:33 am
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castrolrob
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your link comes back as"whoops there was an error,you do not have permission to access this board"but have seen kias with similar problems to what you describe,02-05 most common that I see,guessing the further north you go the worse they get.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 18th, 2016 03:08 pm
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bogwort47
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Hi Everyone

Topic Update 17/12/2016

- the link in my previous post is now: http://kiasorento.proboards.com/board/58/2002-2009-bracket-corrosion-types

- reports are now coming in of vehicles failing or being condemned by a Kia Main Dealer days after an MoT - details are available on the above link.

- though not as prevalent yet, there are now reports of Lower Trailing Arm Forward Brackets, Upper T.Arm Forward bracket mounting cross tube rotting and the rear anti-roll bar mounting bracket to chassis joint rotting away.

- All axle casing and upper brackets are being covered FOC by Kia UK as far as can be seen so long as the owner goes to Kia Customer Services by email first. Members who have gone to a Kia Main Dealer first have often been 'mislead' by the KMD and worst case have scrapped their Sorentos. There are also indications that Kia may have also covered some of the additional problems as well e.g. the cross bar. - details are available on the above link.

- DVSA have agreed that the number of MK 1 Sorentos experiencing bracket failure or being condemned by a Kia Main Dealer from shortly after an MoT right up to the next MoT requires action. DVSA said they would put something on the 'MoT Blog' about this. Last time I checked the Blog, I found nothing. ...details are available on the above link.
Please has anyone here seen any thing yet?

Since last posting, the whole Bracket section on my Home Forum has been re-organised to simplify accessing key information and individual case studies.
Happy Christmas

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 Posted: Tue Apr 19th, 2016 05:10 pm
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bogwort47
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Hi Everyone

6 Months after MoT:


This is all about the Kia Sorento BL (MK 1), manufactured from 2002 to 15 Nov 2008, with UK registrations up to May 2010. The Rear Axle Upper Trailing Arm to Axle, Brackets are prone to corrosion. If left, they break.

To some this will not be new but there are many owners who are still not aware and may be some in the ‘trade’.

In May 2013, Kia UK introduced a Service Campaign through the medium of Kia
Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs). There was no Recall.
In principle, all work is done FOC by Kia UK whether it is:

- The TSB for Drilling of Drainage holes in the original brackets.
- The TSB for Fitting New Brackets
- Fitting of a New Rear Axle Casing
- Collateral damage e.g. Broken Shocks.

More recently, owners have apparently been experiencing greater ‘resistance’ from Main Dealers and Customer Services, but the persistent owners have won.

There are 2 issues which are not ‘properly understood’ at present:
- All Sorentos so far re-checked post Kia TSB are showing corrosion again/breakage/need for new brackets – Kia are re-doing these FOC – data currently referred to Kia for consideration.
- An apparently higher rate of bracket breakage/replacement post MoT than might be explained by human error – data currently with DVSA for consideration.

Owners: Get your brackets seen to/re-checked asap.
MoT Testers: You are the qualified specialist, but please take care*.

If this is new to you or just want to see the detail please register (free) with UKSoretno.com then Login and go to: http://kiasorento.proboards.com/board/58/2002-2009-rear-axle-brackets

* Please PM me on my Home Forum if you would like to discuss the possible causes.

Regards, bogwort 47, Admin 1, UKSorento.com

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